F*ck, I'm Nearly 50

F*ck, Balance is BULLSH!T! with Nigel Marsh

• Dom Hind • Season 1 • Episode 9

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EPISODE 9: F*ck, Balance is BULLSH!T! with Nigel Marsh

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In this episode of Fck, I’m Nearly 50!*, I sit down with the legendary Nigel Marsh - author, speaker, podcast host and all-round bullshit slayer, to talk about midlife reinvention, stripping back, and what actually matters. 💥

Nigel was the very first person I went to when this podcast idea sparked, and true to form, he challenged me: What’s your hook, Dom? Why are you any different? And thank god he did.

This conversation is classic Nigel, hilarious, raw, generous, and full of wisdom that hits right where you need it. We talk about:

🧠 Why ‘work-life balance’ is a load of crap

🏆 How success culture screws with your identity

🌊 The Sydney Skinny and what it means to really get out of your comfort zone

🎨 The joy of doing things you’re crap at (and doing them anyway)

💛 The power of family, chosen simplicity and not needing applause

🎁 The challenge he set me that you might just want to try too

Nigel reminds us that midlife isn’t about maximising everything, it’s about subtracting what doesn’t matter so you can focus on what does.

If you’re over the hustle, done with pretending and quietly wondering is this it? — this one’s for you.

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⚠️ Warning: his laugh is wildly contagious, and yes, we talk about nudity.

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Want to go deeper with Nigel?

🎧 Five of My Life Podcast: https://nigel5m.podbean.com/

🔗 Website: https://nigelmarsh.com

👔 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nigel-marsh-28790416/

📚 Books by Nigel Marsh:

• Fat, Forty and Fired

• Overworked and Underlaid

• Fit, Fifty and Fired-Up

• Smart, Stupid and Sixty

Available wherever you get your books 📖

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🎧 Listen now: https://fckimnearly50.buzzsprout.com

📺 Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/rJ9v_F8tEDw

📲 Follow along: https://www.instagram.com/fckimnearlyfifty

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Let me know what you'd love to hear about next.


🔥 Let’s keep the conversation going! 🔥

📺 Watch the episodes on YouTube – Subscribe here!

💬 Join the community – Follow me on Instagram @fckimnearlyfifty and share your thoughts on this episode. Or connect with me on LinkedIn.

🎧 Never miss an episode – Subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

📢 Spread the word – If you loved this episode, share it with a friend (or 10). Because midlife is better when we figure it out together.

Because f*ck, we’re nearly 50—and isn’t that amazing? 🚀

Dominique Hind:

Hi, I'm Dom Hind and Fuck, I'm nearly 50. Actually, I'm 47 and three months. But who's counting? When I first had the idea for this podcast, the very first person I went to was today's guest, and I can still hear His voice. There are so many podcasts out there. Dom, what's your hook? Why are you going to be any different? That was Nigel Marsh, and of course, he was right. I first met Nigel many, many moons ago when he was at Leo Burnett and working with Justin. He tried to recruit me to head up the digital team. And he's always been someone who sees the bigger picture and pushes you to think braver and be bolder. Since then, Nigel has done a million incredible things. He's the host of five of my life, a brilliant podcast where guests share the five items, their books, films, places, music and their possession that defines them. He's written three books that are part memoir, part mirror hilarious, honest and deeply human. And I still remember Justin last laughing. And then there's the Sydney skinnies. Yes, Nigel is a man who helped get that infamous Sydney nudie swim up and running, which tells you a lot about his ability to make ideas happen no matter how wild they seem. In many ways, Nigel inspired the structure of this podcast, giving it a purpose and a finish line. The countdown to 50 is a concept I owe to him. He also was has one of the best laughs you'll ever hear, and I'm hoping we get to hear it a lot today, because while he's usually the one asking the questions today, it's his turn to be in the hot seat, which will make him very uncomfortable. So let's get into it. Because fuck, I'm nearly 50, and isn't it amazing? Most people know Nigel Marsh for his books, his legendary TED talk on work life balance, or his wildly successful podcast five of my life. But what I love about Nigel is how much he's transformed, transformed over the years, not just in his career, but in the way he thinks about life, meaning and what actually makes us happy. Today, we're talking about it all reinvention, identity, where we get stuck in the wrong things, and what it actually takes to create a life that feels good and not just looks good. Nigel as the first man, welcome to fuck. I'm nearly 50. Thank you. Before we dive in, I do want to ask you, how would you describe yourself in the most Nigel way possible?

Nigel Marsh:

Well, I will. I can answer that because the global TED people asked me to send them a introduction. Put on my TED talk, and I sent and the answer I sent them is what I would use to answer your question, which was Nigel Marsh came second to last in the 2005Bondi to Bronte ocean swing. So you have spent years exploring what really makes life meaningful.

Dominique Hind:

What was your Oh, shit, I need to change something moment.

Nigel Marsh:

So I would change the description slightly of what's meaningful for me. Okay, that's going to be a maybe a theme in this conversation, because I think the world is full of self appointed experts crapping on with platitudinous, repetitious rubbish, giving generic advice, you know, basically abusing vulnerable people are looking for magic answers, and I don't want to be one of those people. So I have got some things that I've worked on that work for me, but I, hey, I wouldn't say that they work for other people. I wouldn't say they work for for women. I wouldn't, you know, I'd say they work for you. So disclosure, you know, I'm not, because there are some people who they make a living, so they have to say, I've got all the answers where I don't yeah and I haven't Yeah. So, so, but I think that is fascinating in itself as well, because we do sometimes forget that we are in control of our own life, and that we do look for all those external validation points to make sure that we feel like things are meaningful. Yeah, so it is interesting to hear what you think was the moment of change for you in your life, right? Well, that's why I know exactly so I there's. There's a falsehood in my in my better known book, fat 40 and fired blood crisis, is that all Nigel changed his life on a dime when he lost his job, which is true to an extent. But what isn't true is that up until then, I was an unthinking advertising executive who just wanted a Porsche, and then I lost my job, and I suddenly became a shepherd, right? I studied theology. I've always been thinking the thoughts that I've had, but I've never had the courage or the circumstances to act upon it, right? So it is an Ooh, gosh, you know, there's none so virtuous as a reformed whore. I add up the you go, no, no, no. I've always been thinking, I don't like this life. I look at everyone who's more senior than me in my profession, and they're all lovely. We're all God's children, and I go, I don't want any of your lives, yeah. Don't want any of your jobs or any of your lives. So why am I doing this? I'm working hard to go up the ladder, and I and I am going up the ladder, and I have no interest in the ladder, right? But, but I have children, and I need to pay. I haven't got any money, so this just, yeah, just happens to be what I do. So, oh, my God, this is really confusing. And I'm living a life of sort of conflicted, because I, you know, it would be irresponsible to say to my wife, Sweetheart, I'm just going to sit at home and run the the ad agency, because you go, well, we'll do please, because who's gonna pay the bills? So if you lose your job? For me, yes, if you lose your job at the age of 40, which I did perfect timing, because I'm on a plane coming back from New York having been told, you know, my life is all over, having relocated my family around the world to Australia, and I read this brilliant quote, pause for a moment, you wretched weaklings, and take stock of your miserable existence. All right. And you go, Well, yes, if I'm not going to do it now, yeah, yeah. And I see this all the time with people, ooh, I'm going to lose the weight. I'm going to give out drink whatever. And you meet them five year, my girlfriend, you're still having the same conversation, which is fine. Change is difficult. And you go, right, well, this is my moment. So it's not the thing that made me think, but it's the thing that made me think, this is my opportunity. Because if I take, you know, I could have got another job. If I take the other job in the same life, I'm I'm doing the same thing, but this is the perfect it's a bit like, if you're gonna have kids, no one says, Well, why are you away from the desk for two weeks? You go, I'm having a kid, right? But you go, why am I not going to work? Well, I've lost my job. Yeah, right. So now time you might not take a year off and, you know, not look for work, but so that was the moment, yeah, I lost my job. I'd been sent to Australia to run an ad agency, and the ad agency was merged and closed, and I was made redundant. Your TED Talk, work life balance, which you mentioned, blew up globally. Did you ever expect it to resonate the way it did? So honest answer, uh, yes, but that's not if you asked, did I expect it to blow up globally? No, but you asked, did I expect it to resonate? Yeah, yes, because I wrote it

Dominique Hind:

Yeah ,

Nigel Marsh:

and I was speaking truth, so I did Yeah, and it did, and in the room, I knew it went down well, because, why wouldn't it? Because yeah, and the whole thing about work life balance, I think, is, it is so interesting. Can I Can I jump in? Yeah, go on. Because I hate the phrase, yep. So I hate the phrase. It's about constructing a life of meaning balance. It suggests that work is bad, pleasure is good. It suggests that you've got to have an equal amount. It's all bullshit. It's all bullshit. It should be about reflection and constructing a life that you find meaningful. Yeah, for me, the thing about work life balance. It just annoys me, because I'm very much and when we had our last company, one of the things was about balance. But balance for me was about passion and making sure that your passion levels were actually aligned. Because if you loved what you were doing, yeah, it didn't seem so hard. But if you didn't like what you were doing, it was really bloody tough. And so we were very focused on that balance being, if you're not enjoying what you're doing, go and we will support you in going. And I think that for me, but can I say, here we go. I get a challenge again. You're allowed to in your firm because it's a firm. It's not government department. No, right. But what, what you actually want is non balanced people in terms of you want them to really prioritise being very, very, very enthusiastic and passionate about your firm. Yep, and I, with the greater respect, couldn't give two fucks about your firm. I'd rather shoot myself in the face than work at your firm. Yeah, so I shouldn't, therefore work at your firm. You definitely shouldn't. Yeah, that's right. So what I see some people doing, which is, it's awful. They talk about how. Have a holiday or do yoga, because you'll then come back refreshed. Yeah, yes. Hold on, so that the holiday point is to come back, is work, yeah, right. So for people to and it's difficult once you're trying to make a living, you've got to do well, yes, do. But once you get to a certain level of success. If you have in a certain age, you are allowed to say, I'm not passionate about with collective audience and with collective by the way, or performance is brilliant, right? But I'm not passionate about it. I'm very thrilled that those people are but, but I'm not, he doesn't mean it's bad. I'm not oppositional, just I'm not passionate about it, right? And you go, great. They're allowed to say, well, we'd like, you know, moronic, ambitious 27 year olds that are, and we don't want 61 year old people who aren't. And you go, the world can go on and be happy, right? But it's sort of faux. Faux balances personal responsibility. You go, so when I left my last big in with air Bunny's corporate job, I said to the people in York, you need someone who is interested in this, you know, because I don't Yeah, and I know someone who is Yeah, and he'll take over Yeah, so we can make that

Dominique Hind:

Yeah. But it is because, but that comes back to the passion thing. If the passions are there, you just don't do it. But here we go, unless, unless you do need to make sure that you do put food on the table, that you are providing

Nigel Marsh:

the whole and that's the whole context of this conversation is, if you got to attend to the realities of life, if you've got to do that, then you have the different conversation. How can I put the table? Yeah, but there is something I see people talking about being passionate the business. And these are people who been very successful in run firms. You go, but mate, you fly to work in a helicopter. Yeah, of course you're passionate because you and Justin own the bloody firm, right? Oh, dipshit over here. I don't find it working. But, you know, I mean, we pick people that you go, Oh, I run Amazon. Think Amazon is, is, have you know, do great work, have fun. You can not, if you're on the factory packing boxes, you don't, you do Jeff with your fifth wife, and you're playing, right? So just, there's just too much bullshit out

Dominique Hind:

there. Yeah, there is. There is, do you think with all this bullshit and the work life balance or imbalance, do you think we're actually getting any better at how we work?

Nigel Marsh:

No, no, I don't think we are, for reasons that I mentioned before is people have people have hijacked the the issue like the, oh, who's a woman? Arianna Huffington, spare me, you know? Oh, there's a third pillar is not just about money and success. Oh, shoot me. Now, I mean, you've just discovered that having made yourself a multi millionaire, right? And you're gonna so people who shouldn't be talking about it, yeah? Talking about it in a way that's disingenuous, right? Yeah, certain jobs and careers are just incompatible with having what I would call balance. Yeah, this is incompatible. If you want to work for Blackrock investments or whatever they've got every right you want you to work 19 hours a day and go, go, go. So if that isn't what you want, don't do it. Yeah? But just pretend they drank for the Kool Aid. They go, Oh, but BlackRock, we have sleep pots. We have dress down Fridays. We have whatever. No Fridays people half an hour talk about it and get paid and write books, and I apologise for doing a TED speech, but I try to do that authentically, and which may be why it's been seen by so many people where you go, you know, I'm not trying to sell you anything. Yeah, right. Anything, yeah, right, right? Is there are people who it's time management tricks, yeah, yeah. So there are the very, very, very worst people to be talking about. I went to talk in America to some horse vets, bizarrely, yes, AAEP, American Association of Equine practitioners, they've got suicide rate for the national average, yes, and there was five and a half 1000 of there in San Antonio. And I stood up and I going, if you've hired me to give you tips and tricks to make your life easier, I will refund my fee, because I'm not going to give you any. I have no interest in making you more efficient. Because if I could make you more efficient and do your job two hours quicker a day, what would you do? Do more two hours. Yeah. So what's the point? Yeah, what? Just, what's the point? Don't do your emails while sitting on the loo or, you know, text your boss while having sex. Don't do anything. There's no There's no point, right? Yep, I'm here for a real conversation. Would you like this conversation? Is any of this making any sense?

Dominique Hind:

Absolutely, absolutely is. I just love you being the one being questioned. I hate it

Nigel Marsh:

and don't I don't want anyone to take my advice. I just don't want them to take bad

Dominique Hind:

advice. You. You know what? I think the thing from all of it is, it's just making sure that you are happy with you like, that's it. And you know what you actually want, like, and not worrying about the other stuff.

Nigel Marsh:

Yes, yes. But sometimes you might need help in doing that, doing that. Yeah, I said there's something I read which I thought just brilliant. There's three things. It's progress over perfection, consistency over intensity, fundamentals over fads. Yeah, you go, wow, that's not a bad place to or the in terms of being happy, you go, something to do, yeah, someone to love, something to look forward to. Yes. So simple stuff, where Somerset Maure said the important core life lessons are too important to be new,

Dominique Hind:

yes, yeah. And so what

Nigel Marsh:

we're all after is, oh, is it yoga? Is it One Minute Manager, four hour workday? You love language. You know, after the latest person, is it Huberman? Is it Rogan to come out? We pull something out of their backside? That's the answer that humanity hasn't thought of for the last 2000 years. That's the answer to make you happy. Yeah, it's probably not that. Life's hard. Life's got challenges. Can you you know, actually, maybe granny was right, yeah, you know, be nice

Dominique Hind:

to your partner, be kind, the kind smile that say hello. That's right, yep, it is all of the old day wisdoms. And that was the quote, the happiness. What was it someone

Nigel Marsh:

to love? Yeah, that's the someone to love, something to do, something to look forward to. Yes, which it's not a bad another that's not a bad crater to live by. Another one. When you get to our age, and I'm 20 years older than you, but when i is a passionate dedication to short term goals, you go and hold on. You go, passion, the purpose of vision. You go, no, no, no, no, no, no. You go, what's in front of you? Now I'm doing this example. Yeah, I'll do it to the very, very best of very best of my ability, yeah, full stop, genuinely, authentically, I'll do the best of my ability. Full stop. No one might watch, or it might blow up and be fantastic, but I'll just do it for the best of my ability. Yes. And you go, do you know what that might actually make you happy, and it might make it the best podcast to do, as opposed to, oh, I've got to do it to be seen, to win or to monetize it. And so if you Mandela said you haven't got to see the whole staircase to take the first step, you go, if you're lucky enough to be in the situation that you are in, and I would imagine many of your audience is in, right? So this is not the people who are struggling to pay their mortgage, right? You go, you got to a certain stage. Ooh, you're a partner in the law firm, but you don't really like it. And, la, la, la. And you go, what was it? How about you choose something? It's almost like a reinvention. Yeah, did you know the Japanese phrase can record? Yeah, yes, yes, yeah, right. You go, what a privilege, what a privilege to get to 50. You go, right, I'm gonna, now, I've done all those things. I'm now gonna, you know what? I'm gonna, whatever it is, set up cafe, do a podcast, whatever it is, but I'm gonna do it really, really well. Yeah, not gonna expect a round of applause. No, anyone to be interested. See where that goes,

Dominique Hind:

but see and this is like, I mean, I think that was your advice to me when we first sat down and look where it's got. You bloody No way. Said to you, I want to do a podcast. You're like, why there's so many of them out there? Why? What are you? Why are you going to be different? And then you said, What are you doing? It for fame, to be an influencer money? And I was like, No, I actually just want to give airspace to the conversations that I'm having with my

Nigel Marsh:

friends. But also, I suspect, which is perfectly fine. You want to learn, oh, you know what? And that's it. So Lydia's advice, or her thing, the what I should .

Dominique Hind:

Well, Lydia was my previous guest, so she said the thing that I should try and do before I'm 50 is become a beginner. And so she This is my becoming a beginner. So doing a podcast is my becoming a beginner, because I have never done it before.

Nigel Marsh:

So who is Lydia?

Dominique Hind:

Oh, she's one of my good friends. So she is an astrology background in finance, astrologer and executive coach, and her view is about how she can use astrology, but also to make sure that it is from a coaching perspective, bring it to life.

Nigel Marsh:

So leaving the astrology aside, yes, I like the sound. Yeah, it is. The thing about a beginner, I really like that is one of the things, if people ask, and I know their circumstances, and so it's not advice, but I just say it's what I do, and might like to try it is to liberate yourself. It's absolutely brilliant, right? From being good, yes, right? That's it. Or winning, yes, right? Or anyone caring, yeah, right. So that there's things that I do don't, no one watches this. Do? They don't. There's things that I do don't, don't tell anyone, right, right? Where I'm teaching. to draw, yes, I'm useless at it. Yeah, yeah. I'm teaching myself to play chess, yeah, I'm useless at it. Yeah, right. I've got all these things, and I get so much, but you wouldn't know unless I'm on a podcast. You ask, yeah? You get so much pleasure from it, absolutely, so many, as opposed to top of the new business league in my age, yeah? Doing it, yeah, doing it. For me, that's right. And to don't if you're going to, especially at the age of 50, if you're going to limit yourself to things that you can be world class and or pay your mortgage from, is going to be, it's going to be going back to the corporate

Dominique Hind:

world. That's it. It is. And that's where, like, the becoming a beginner. It is. It's amazing. Like, when you get a comment from someone that says, I listened to that, and I've implemented it like, you go, Oh, someone listened that is amazing, like, and it is, it's becoming a beginner, puts it takes away all the pressure and the expectations that you actually have to do a great job. And you can stuff up, and you can have your phone tell you that it's double bay markets at 12 o'clock on a Thursday, which is what it is, but it's good, and I love that advice. Okay, so I'm going to ask you about your podcast. Five of my life. Do you want to do a little plug? Who was your last guest? The returning Prime Minister, wasn't it? So the five, they're the five choices that define your life, and you always ask the sixth question, yes, which was, Who do you want to hear on this? But if you had to pick another category, what would you add? I would add person,

Nigel Marsh:

okay, yep, and so I like the format. I'm very passionate about the format. And the idea is I do an episode every two weeks until I die, then I hand over to one of my kids. So it becomes a thing sideways in how do people respond to this? It can it was never going to change. Yep, right? And, and I pulled the five out of my backside, right? Yeah, it could have been five other things. I mean, I liked the five. I didn't want it to be like the music ones like Desert Island Discs or Jan rose take five or whatever. Nothing wrong with those. But I didn't want to be just music. So I picked five sort of random things in your life. But I could have had person in there and not place, but I didn't. So fuck it, but, but so I know the answer is it because I was thinking it could be six in my life, whatever, make it five so, but because relationships are, Oh, there they do change you. That's right, and it would be, but I think I can get to that from the other five. Yeah. I think you can do but, but I would make it more overt, yeah, and then they come on and go. So why did, and what it was just called Lydia. Why did you choose Lydia? Was she changed my life because she loved Yes, yeah. And has anyone's choice changed your perspective on something? Yeah, it's been just like you doing this to learn. Wow. It's, I mean, we haven't got enough time this week to talk about it, so someone chose a book by Frank Ostieski called the Five invitations about Dying, yes. And this is not the, you know, the cliche, we were all going to die. We only got one life drink from the cup of life with both hands. Yeah, all that stuff, which I, which, I believe, right, but, but, but, you know, make the most of life. Well, obviously you and we're going to die, life is fine. Now this is learning lessons from the process of dying. Yeah, okay, right, yeah. So that you asked me because I thought about all the cliche things which I think are true, yeah? But you go, Oh, that's interesting. And there are lots of lessons, but one of them is we can practice meeting bad slash unpleasant slash unwelcome things with grace. Yes, wow. How interesting. This is a book about learning lessons from dying that rather than wait until you're 88 and strung up to all the machines in the hospital where you come to enlightenment. Yeah, I've got two more weeks of this thing dripping into me, then I'm going to caulk it. And then you realise what is important and what isn't well well done. You've learned to 88 right? How about you take that go back to 47 you 47 Yep, done a good day of a 40th right? You 48 Did you say? Yeah, go back to 47 and go under. Learn those lessons now. Yeah, not then. And one read the book, yeah? But one of them Isn't that brilliant. You go, Ah, so something bad's happened. You know, government won't let me out my lease, whatever it say. You go, gonna handle with grace. That doesn't mean be a pushover or no notice. But I'm gonna, you know, not gonna lose my rag and be an idiot. I'm gonna, yeah, practice America. Maybe I can get better at that. So then the next thing, bad thing happens. That's just one example, but I could give you it's been 200 episodes. Yeah, you know, a

Dominique Hind:

lot. I think when we caught up, one of the things that I really liked was how you said that you were quite judgmental at the start. Can you tell how.

Nigel Marsh:

Happy. My wife said, Whatever happens Nigel, I've got I've completely let myself down. Whatever. Don't say any of the things that I've actually said and I said, I said, Sweetheart, don't worry. I'm gonna I was nice about Lydia, wasn't I? You were bloody astrologer.

Dominique Hind:

But I think you said that you were extremely judgmental when you started, and you have softened. This is the circle to see you before. I

Nigel Marsh:

knew, Oh no, I'm terrible because I, yeah, terrible. So it has part of me. Reason for me doing it, yeah, is people would put forward. I used to do with a media company, and they go, great news. We've got the lady who reads the news on, no, far off. I mean, I mean, yeah, it wasn't over. But you know someone, and I thinking, what, you know, I'd rather lick the pavement than interview that stupid person, right? And you go, No, force yourself, you arrogant, censorious, supercilious fucker, to look for the good in everyone. Yeah, right. Look for the good because they everyone's got learning. Everyone is

Dominique Hind:

half an hour Interesting, yeah, and everyone's got a story.

Nigel Marsh:

So I take it back about all those, all those self help people.

Dominique Hind:

No, you don't. Is there one common regret or realisation is year from people over and over.

Nigel Marsh:

Yeah, there is. And it's, it's ironic, actually, because the the choice that leads to the the best stories overall, if I'm looking back over 200 episodes ago, which is the one of the, of the five that works best for people to open up and do the spirit of what I'm trying to do, yeah, it's the possession, yes, right, yeah, yeah, but, but, but, as Bertrand Russell said, it's the preoccupation with possessions above anything else. Is what stops mankind living freely and nobly. Right? Is everyone to a man and a woman says to me, either on air

Dominique Hind:

or off air? Oh, I'm not really a possessions. Yeah,

Nigel Marsh:

so what? So in the process, I'm a big bloke in on reflection, I think that's the answer to the world, is just think about things mindfully. And right is, when they are forced to sit down, you know, they go, Oh, my books this. They go, Oh, possessions. And then in that process, no one has said, Oh, well, actually, it's my diamond, you know, necklace, or my or my gold Rolex. They all say it's my granny's scarf or, yeah, yeah. And you go, isn't that interesting? Then it's universal. Yeah. They all go, do you know what? At the end of the day,

Dominique Hind:

it's not the expensive thing. It's something that actually has a meaning that's interesting. So I was in Perth last week and went to the Western Australian Museum. And one of the things, or one of the items, that touched me the most was a pink embroidered hanky from a lady who looked after a soldier who had been literally left to die by the side of the road. And he she looked after him, sent him with this hanky when the Australian troops could actually become a collective and I literally cry just looking at that. And you go, it's this tiny little hanky, but it's a possession that meant so much and had so much meaning. And, yeah, it's, it's unbelievable. There you go. It's not the expensive stuff, it's the stuff with meaning. Okay, good. You've spoken a lot about how we tie much of our identity to work and being on that hampsville. Why do you think so many of us fall into that trap of tying ourself to that identity.

Nigel Marsh:

I think it's entirely natural and what you'd expect. And again, a bit like the drink thing is, if you have to, which I imagine you did, and I did, work very, very hard without any, you know, connections to get you in. Yeah, you get you go, if I'm going to look after my wife and, you know, family. I'm going to have to succeed at something else. We're going to be living on the streets. Yeah? Blah, blah. So you spend the vast majority of your waking hours in the thing that you're doing. You spend almost every thought there was a pie graph. Yeah, right about it. So it would be a bit weird if you didn't. So I don't think it's it's surprising, no, right? And I think it's remarkable. If people, I think what you're doing is fabulous, if you can actually say, Oh, hold on, this was to fit this purpose. Yeah, I and the Bonfire of the Vanities, no. But anyway, was about a bloke who says, I'm going to be a hedge fund manager, but I'll just do it for two years, sweetheart, yeah, and then we'll stop and be rich, and we'll live like but, but you never do because

Dominique Hind:

never stop. You never stop. Well, because everyone's always it's like a trophy house. You got to have a bigger house.

Nigel Marsh:

So, so you go, Well, yeah, that, you know, I'm a doctor, or I'm an advertising person, or I'm a whatever. You go, that's, that is. It's completely understandable, yeah. So for you, then

Dominique Hind:

were you tied in your identity as an ad exec, and then when that was gone, yep. How did that feel?

Nigel Marsh:

So for me, it felt great, but, but it doesn't mean and what? Yeah, we haven't got enough time. I'm over running. I do follow those is you've got to be careful with the tribes that use swimming, yeah, right? Or just mindful, right? So it would be, for me, it was fantastic I didn't count anymore amongst the people that I didn't mind that I didn't count, right, right? So it's a really, so just been, you know, we're, I give me some money agency of the year, and I'm at a ball where the agency of the year, then people would be interested, because, ooh, Leah Burnett agency, yeah, that's fine. But if you if, if I went back the next year and said to, you know, I sort of grabbed the mic, yeah? So to the year before, I'm accepting agency of the year, and the next year, bizarrely, I've got a five minute spot. So just to update you on what I'm doing, you know, I'm learning to bilaterally breathe in my thingy, and I'm doing perspective on drawing. They would rightly think I wouldn't expect it. I would be the idiot. Yeah, right, yeah, I expect. And want you to think I'm yesterday's, man. I'm a loser. I don't count. Oh my god, who's going to take up the exit now and and just, just think I'm as irrelevant as a rock. Yeah, right, yeah. And then, when I'm swimming every Friday, Gordon's bay with the crust oceans, you know, swimming crew, bunch of Irish backpackers, and they go, oh gosh, got stung by a blue bottle. Or, how do you do that? They'd be interested, because we're doing that thing. Yeah, yeah. When, if I say them, oh, by the way, with liber agents of the year, they go, Why sleep?

Dominique Hind:

So, just so true. I think you're already

Nigel Marsh:

Yeah. Now, can you imagine how devastating that is, if secretly you do mind? Yeah, right, yeah, this is way. So again, brilliant podcast. I recommend. How much I look at recommend this podcast because you need to do the thinking. Because if really this is all a trick, yep, right. Actually, Your looks are going, your health's going, your careers tanking. So what this is, is a trick. I'm gonna try and reinvent it so I can still seem irrelevant. Yeah, hid people that I'm successful, beautiful and ageing, well, yeah. And you go, you are in for a really tough road, because those people will still not care for you, yeah? And they'll know, they'll be able to see that you're making it up and you're pretending. You'll look really, you'll be really miserable. Yeah, you'll be really, really miserable, right? Yeah, you should be without being oppositional. Um, I think people who in the industry I worked in, I'm thrilled for them. It's really stupid. No, it's really great, yeah, just great, yeah, right, so, but it

Dominique Hind:

was that chapter, as you said, it's your chapter in your life, own. And it's, yeah,

Nigel Marsh:

own, the fact that you know what I don't expect, Headhunters, journalists, whatever, in your world. You know, the moment you stop being you, the people who all the people in your ecosystem, who were in your ecosystem because of your very successful career, will rightly move on. Oh, absolutely, they'll go with you.

Dominique Hind:

That's right. You know what? I want them to move on. I'm so happy for them to move on. Just let me go and be a beginner. Be a beginner again. Interview Nigel. Yeah. Interview Nigel. So if someone is stuck in their job, what piece of advice that you would give to them? And I know you don't love giving advice, something

Nigel Marsh:

that's helped you, so I get unstuck. I don't mind if it's one on one, yeah, yeah. What I hate is just generic, you know, yeah, do yoga get up and the Huberman stuff is actually, I shouldn't be negative. He's great, yeah, it is. If they're stuck in their job, the first advice and they hate their job is, I'd ask them to do some reflection on, is it your job, or is it your life? And this is really important, right? Yeah, if you've got a dick wad as a boss and you're not being promoted, you don't think that paid enough money, but what? But really you like being a doctor or a architect or an ad person, it's the job. I go. Well, this is great. I'm glad you had this chat, Tiffany, you just need to work for a different firm in a different hospital? Yeah, yeah. So that's good to clarify that, because what I don't do is say to people do what I want to do, because they may not want to do what I want to do, right? No, if they say, actually, I it's the life. If I move to a different hospital, architecture firm, ad agency, I still wouldn't like it. I go, Okay, that's interesting. Why wouldn't you? So to do the thinking first, yes, yeah. Is it job? Then get another one, you idiot, right? Is it life? It's life. Okay, well, then don't do anything. Don't do anything dramatic. Think about the realities of who you've got to provide for. But that's interesting. What. Dom's podcast, and think about what you might change, because what sometimes you go, it's easy to know what you're running away from, yes, it's less easy to know what you're running to, yeah. So keep earning the bucks and not liking your life. But don't worry, you're on the train with Dom. When it comes to 50, you will like,

Dominique Hind:

well, something that Todd, I can still remember him saying to me, is double tracking, yeah, so. And you know the double tracking thing that if someone doesn't like their life, yeah, it is, continue with the job that you're on, yeah, but make sure you're starting to learn the next skill that you actually want. Pearls of wisdom from Mr. Saint. Yes. Pearls of wisdom, you've had some major reinventions from advertising, CEO, author, podcast host, continuing. Podcast host, speaker, how do you know when it's time to move on?

Nigel Marsh:

Right? So the things that I've done that you mentioned have all post, dated, fat, 40 and fired? Yes, okay. And since fat 40 and fired, I've, which drives Mrs. Marsh, you know, mad, I've had what I call the car headlights strategy, just like the Mandela, yeah, the staircase is, if you're driving to Canberra, the car headlight at night. Haven't got to light up the whole way. No, they light up 100 metres, then another 100 metres. Yeah, and then you finally get to Karen. So what I've done is, you go, right now, I've been, you know, I'm going to take a year off and give up drink and write a book. Well, I've done that now, Oh, someone's offering me a job, so I'm going to do that. And then, you know, someone's offered me to do a TED speech. So it's just do what's in front of me as well as I can, yes, hopefully with love and authenticity and a desire to serve. So it's not like I'm really clever. I'm going to do a I'm just going to I have I interviewed a book called Ashok ferry, a lovely bloke on the podcast who said something wonderful. I'm a he's a very successful author in Sri Lanka. I'm a sailboat, and I'm currently becalmed. This is him talking, not me. I'm currently becalmed, waiting for the next gust of wind. Very happy. Yeah, where it is. And for me, I'm not become because I know what I'm doing at the moment. But if I stop doing the podcast, you know, in a month's time, which I don't plan to, but if I did, I go, that's completely fine. I'm married to who I want to be married to. I live where I want to this is not I don't got tickets on myself. It meant to say I'm comfortable with all its messiness and imperfection. I'm I'm allowing myself to be happy, yeah, and I'm allowing myself not to know what was next? Because I spent 25 years in a very linear way. Yeah. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that. That was that change of that life. You go, I am, I am. Mr. Non linear. Yeah,

Dominique Hind:

right. Is that how you identify?

Nigel Marsh:

It's not the best financial strategy.

Dominique Hind:

Have you ever made a decision you deeply regretted at the time, but now realise it was the best thing that could have happened.

Nigel Marsh:

No, I mean, things have happened to me that I deeply regretted, that they happened to me. Yeah, that turned out to be the best thing. Yes, losing my job. Yes, you know that changed my life. Yeah, right, but that wasn't a decision, no, and I didn't regret making the decision I made to do, but so, but I regretted it happening to me. Yes. I mean, bizarrely, it's not the best thing at Avenue, but I really regretted agreeing to do the TED speech. Oh, really, yeah, so I was, and this was before Ted. I mean, now it's been, you know, it's the bland brand is so diluted. There's

Dominique Hind:

yeah, there's

Nigel Marsh:

everything left. People, you know, will nothing wrong with one another, but you know it's yeah, there's everywhere, yeah. So back then it was, it was quite a big deal. I'd never heard of it. I got asked to do it, and so I said, Can you pay me? Yeah? Because I thought we just got another speaking. Yeah, I mean, well, why would I do that? Right? And they went, Oh, please, please. I know the bloke, so I sort of as a favour, said, I mean, all right, yeah, right, right, anyway. And then I looked at TED, and back then, you know it was, it was Bill Clinton, Bill Yes, so I called him up. There's a bloke called nice bloke called Remo, and said, mate, you've got the wrong man. You know, I mean, it's, I haven't, you know, changed humanity by inventing the iPhone or whatever you just this is, this is wrong for the brand. Yeah, you've got me anywhere near it. So I tried to pull out just good mate. Why would anyone listen to me? For Christ's sake, I haven't got any advice. And anyway, I really, really regretted having initially, because I don't want to break it. Yeah, let him down. So I really, really. Regretted having agreed to doing it, yeah. And to this day, every week, I get at least two emails from countries I have never been to saying, you know, it changed my life. We have it, you know, it's been taught in our university or, you know, wow. And you go, I've had, yeah, I've been around the world doing speeches off the back of it, you know, so it's not the best thing ever happened to me, but

Dominique Hind:

it was, but it was, yeah, that's interesting. Imagine if you didn't,

Nigel Marsh:

yeah. Well, no, yeah. And you know who said I should do it, Mrs. Marsh. Oh, yeah, but I've written that out of history. No, no. I always wanted. It

Dominique Hind:

was all me, always me. What's the one thing you worried about in your 40s that you now realise is completely irrelevant.

Nigel Marsh:

So I used to, and it served me well, to an extent, I used to set entirely arbitrary goals, right? Okay, so the thing itself wouldn't be a bad thing. It could be health, yes, it could be money, it could be career progression. It could be running, yeah, right. God, this great question, so I would go right, so I need to be better at Right, right, yeah. And then I'd said, pull out of my ass. A arbitrary goal, absolute thing, right? So I right. I need to be fit aside. Need to run a 5k in 30 minutes. Yeah, right, right. And then you'd write a SMART goal, yeah, right. And then exactly. And then I'd run it in 30 minutes, in one second. I think it's a disaster. Yeah. We go, hold on. You just didn't, you couldn't get off the couch before or I go, I need to, oh, I don't know. I need to be chief executive of the ad agency by 1999 and you go, well, they just say 2000 we'll give it to you in February. 2000 right? So just take the stick out your ass. Yeah. And back to the thing I said about progress over perfection, yes, yeah, consistency of intensity and fundamentals over fads. It's, it's in that area where it's so think of now with the benefit. I mean, I'm, I'm fuck. I'm nearly 70. It is, is think of the area that you rightly are thinking about. You go, I'm a fat porker, and I'd like to be less fat, right? So I've got to be a size three by June so I can get into my bikini. You go, Well, maybe Tracy. Well, maybe I want to get healthier, yes. And I want to feel better, fitter and happier in my body, so I'm going to move on the progress train. And so I think, Oh, sick is like a Zen Buddhist thing. It's, be open to the outcome, not attached to the outcome. Yes. And I go, not outcome, but be open to the idiotic, random absolute goal, not attached to it. So you go, do you know what I said? I wanted to be nine stone three pounds, and I'm nine stone four pounds. Well, given that I used to be 22 stone, right? I'm still allowed to celebrate the victory, yeah, yeah. Answer that question, yeah. Am I answering any of your questions? Okay,

Dominique Hind:

you are answering them. Is there anything you used to care deeply about that you've let go? Yeah? Drink, yeah.

Nigel Marsh:

So my whole life. I mean, not my whole life based around drink, everything, socialising, work, everything, drink,

Dominique Hind:

and yeah, do you feel? And I know there are some annoyances when you are still asked for a drink, even though they've known that you do not drink. But do you feel in yourself better about it not even being there anymore.

Nigel Marsh:

Yeah, 100% Yeah. It's just a thing of utter joy in my life. I'm not voting for anyone else to do it. Mrs. Marsh drinks like a fish, and that's fantastic. I'll make her a gin and tonic. She could you make me right? And she'll go, oh, that hits the spot. I go, could you make me another I go, All right,

Dominique Hind:

what's the one thing that only gets better with age?

Nigel Marsh:

Oh, God again. Edit this out, family. Yeah, family is just, oh, just fantastic. It's just an utter joy. And my family, I mean I love my brother, I love my parents past now, but I mean my, my, my crew, yeah, your crew, your immediate family. My immediate family is just a source of constant, ecstatic, orgasmic delight for me that I don't tell anybody we're on a family messenger. And it's that makes me the happiest man in the world to see the banter going back and forth and the, you know, just lovely. It's less Mother's Day on Sunday, we're all going to go out. But they still, you know, want to do it. Wants to do it. And we'll do when does this go out? Don't spoil the surprise. We got surprised. You know, they've thought of a surprise for cow. Yeah, and we're all going to be together. He goes, it's just joy. Now, there are some people, well, he this is to the heart of your and there's only for me, some people who bored senseless. You know my and this is not gendered, I just happen to be a man. So it's man who would go, my wife bores me. My children born. Yeah, I don't want to go to Les Miz with my four children, I'd rather be chucking down the beers with the blokes or whatever. Yeah, that's fine. Well, then chuck that, you know. But for me family, it's just yeah, yeah. Thing of joy

Dominique Hind:

that is that's amazing. And you have been married for decades, have raised four kids and managed to juggle it all. What's one piece of relationship advice?

Nigel Marsh:

If, if I were to be asked Yeah, and you did, yes, I would prioritise my relationship with Kate above anything else, yep, above career, yes, above friends, yeah, above location. If she said sweetheart, I am gonna be miserably unhappy if we don't move to the north of Scotland. I mean, I'd have a chat to her about it. I don't wanna then I moved to the north Scotland. Yeah, right, because then I'd factor the same so actually do the work to reflect. Are you bending over backwards to prove to everybody, including yourself, that your relationship isn't important to you? Well, then guess what? Your relationship might stink. Or are you actually prioritising? It doesn't mean that you're less of a woman or less of a man if you've chosen to prioritise your life partner, yeah. Sake, right. Anyway. And the third thing is learn to listen properly. Listen. There you go. Lifetime challenge, listen

Dominique Hind:

and listen to listen not to listen to respond. Best Life lessons your kids have taught you.

Nigel Marsh:

Oh, my God, there's so many. But are those are so gorgeous that the one that's embarrassing doesn't reflect well on me, but I was whine. Whining about having to do God, this is what a asset. I was whining. I was stressed about having to go to America to do a speech, and I apparently uttered the words, I've got to go to New York. And Alex said, Dad, you get to go to, yeah, yeah. And I sort of thought, you go, hold on. I mean, check yourself. Yeah, right. I mean, just check I'm turning 50. I've got wrinkles. I don't know what to do. You go, yeah, come on. You've, you know, you've got your health. You survive. You survive. You're here, you've got a nice family, you're this and that so that there you get to address the challenges that you're doing the series for what a wonderful privilege, you know, honour, the opportunity, rather than, oh gosh, it's really difficult. You know, the 21 year old Victoria secrets model has got perkier boobs than me, you know, which is the level that some people are wrong. I mean, you go, you're not going to put this

Dominique Hind:

to where I'm definitely putting that one, particularly your Victoria Secret Pookie boobs. You once said real friendships and even relationships are built on effort, honesty and shared experiences. How do you make sure you are investing in the right people? I for,

Nigel Marsh:

hmm. So I think investing might not be the right word. I know, yeah, but just because, because sometimes that, that sort of suggests maybe you want something back. Okay, yeah, I take that, yeah. So I would say, when you get to the age that you're talking about and you're thinking about reflecting and maybe pivoting, it's natural that lots of your friends who are genuinely your friends and are lovely people, have become your friends because of what what you Yes, what you do, perfectly, lovely, right? So you met them at the school gate. You met them at the office kettle, and you met them commuting whatever you meet them because, because the tribes that you're in, yep, right? And that's completely fine when you get to the age we're talking about. Is it can be useful to go, do you know what I'm going to turn the telescope around and I think about the things that I value, yes, and the things that interest me, but then being a narcissist, yeah, you go, do you know what I like doing parkrun on Saturday, right? And that's not gonna be interesting to the ad executive headhunter, but I like doing parkrun on Saturday, so I will do parkrun on Saturday, and Justin does Parker on Saturday. So maybe Justin and I can be pals, because we both seem to like meeting and volunteering and running on a Saturday, as opposed to I've retired from the ad industry, so I'm going to be friends with, I mean, people who, genuinely I'm friends with, but, but, but they are interested in. In the gun report or can or whatever, which is great that they are, but, but, but follow your interests and your values. And so just have a think about that. Maybe. Why are my friends with so and so? Well, we used to bring up children through the thing, yeah? And doesn't mean that he or she isn't a bad Don't be oppositional, yeah, but don't be oppositional. They're they're lovely, but actually she's interested in things that I'm not, or her values

Dominique Hind:

aren't my values. Well, they've changed. And so that's right, you've realigned, yeah,

Nigel Marsh:

and I think just be gracious and nice to everyone, but then maybe to invest, invest in being friends with Justin, because he seems to like

Dominique Hind:

the things that you like. Yeah, yep, yep. So your laugh. And Justin and I always talk about your infectious laugh. Has that always been your superpower in a room? Because it always tends to break the ice and get people out of their stiffness.

Nigel Marsh:

Oh, gosh, oh, I don't I love that from embarrassed, I don't know. So I've always, I don't know why, but had a sort of a sense that we are ridiculous meat robots over complex organisms primarily designed to convert wine into urine. And if you think that, it's hard to take things too, too seriously, you know, talking about their latest company vision or profits or whatever, as you go, I think you sit down to do a dump, just like everyone else. You're, I think actually you're, you've got a ridiculous brain in a in a skull, so I don't know. I've, I've got a friend who listened to my podcast and said, You You laugh like basil brush, which is a my son were called a complice Salt,

Dominique Hind:

right? Yeah.

Nigel Marsh:

Is that an insult, or is it a compliment? I think it's a compliment. So I don't know if

Dominique Hind:

you could put one message on a billboard, yep, for everyone over 40 to see. What would it be?

Nigel Marsh:

It would be the quote that I started my TED speech. Yes. Pause for a moment, you wretched weaklings, and take stock of your miserable existence. I think it's just, and there's a Waterloo Station in London, there's a piece of graffiti. It says, you're all going to die, and like half a million people, you know, you see it every morning, right? But it just pretend. It said what I've just said, yeah, it's actually quite good advice. Yeah, always, never think, and you not when you're 27 and you've got, you're struggling to meet yourselves, yeah? But you know, when you it's this, what you're doing with this is pause and have a think. I'm going to commit yourself to anything. Just don't be decide. Don't slide into your 50s. Yeah, yeah, right. Your 50s should be, for me, they'll be the best decade of my life, the best I keep, without any shadow of, any shadow of doubt, they were head and shoulders above every other decade on the criteria that I've got. Yes, yeah, by far and away, the least successful on the others, right? But, but genuinely with they were the most successful decade of my life, and I intend my 60s to be far more successful, yeah, but if I was going because I've won a titanium line, I forget it. I mean, yeah, it doesn't

Dominique Hind:

matter. That doesn't actually matter. And you've lived many versions or different versions of you and your life, when you look back, what's the one thing that stayed constant

Nigel Marsh:

again? This is going to upset Mrs. Marsh. So the philosophy of enoughness and wow, I can't recommend it enough if you are wired like me, and most people aren't. You know, again, I'm not on air to give advice you could you ask just for a chat. So I'm having a chat. Leave the advice to Lydia. She sounds much better is when I do this. Is this? So I'll give this advice so people can not

Dominique Hind:

follow it. Okay, yeah, good. So what not to do? By Nigel mush,

Nigel Marsh:

although it's what I do, yeah? So if I do, if I write a book, yes, and it's fat, 45 is the best selling, locally authored book of 2005 in Australia, right? Everyone around me understandably, maximise it, leverage it. I run in the opposite direction, yeah, if I do a TED speech, it's seen by 6 million people, everyone around me goes, maximise it, yep, I never talk about world abundance ever again on TED, I refuse. Yeah, if I do a podcast, I've got the prime minister on. We get podcast of the year. In our first year, everyone goes, Matt, I run in the opposite direction, yeah. So with everything, with my house, with my car, with my job, with everything I just want. I. To lovingly do it to the best of my ability, hopefully contribute a little bit full stop. And I mean other people who are far more successful and far richer than I will ever ever be, who go, Yeah, but you're not sweating any of those assets. And I go, No, I'm absolutely not. So when I if you were to, if you were to look at my advertising career, you go, what are you thinking? Your agency of the year twice in a row you've whatever it was. You've done Earth Hour one, McDonald This is New York. Here we come and go. Bronte beach. Here we come. So for me, that's been the constant. Yeah? Now I would describe it as philosophy of enoughness. Kate would describe it as a moronic loser who keeps on running away from success, right? Yeah, but I think that has been a constant. I just don't, just don't want to maximise stuff. It doesn't mean I would mind if it naturally happened. Yeah, and I'll bend myself into my breath, and I'm not going to do things that I think are dishonest, which sometimes maxing it means, yeah,

Dominique Hind:

selling yourself, yeah. What's the one book, film or piece of music that sums up this phase of your life?

Nigel Marsh:

Now that's a weird question to ask me. I know because,

Dominique Hind:

and you don't normally don't answer anything like that? Well,

Nigel Marsh:

no, I know, but big, because for me, it sets up my life is I've written three decade books that sum up my life. So for what sums up this life, it will be smart, stupid and 60, because I've written a book summing up my life, and inevitably go, what summed up your 40s? It would be fat. 40 and five. What sums up your 50s would be 50 and fired up. So I am that. How vain do you have to be to write three autobiographies. Can you say

Dominique Hind:

you don't like giving advice you've written three books? Yeah.

Nigel Marsh:

Well, do you know someone thought to me and for me, and it kills me when they're in self help sections, it is they are me, self indulgently crapping on about me. And if you find something useful, I'm pleased. Yeah, but they aren't. What was it the Magic of Not Giving a Fuck all those books? I can't, I can't bring myself to do that, but all three of those books, I could have changed them slightly. Yeah, and said 10 Tips to be as clever as me. Yeah, and I can't do it. I they aren't actually advice. They're just hopefully humorous

Dominique Hind:

books. Yeah, I still can remember just Justin, just absolutely falling off the chair. Fat, five and 40. It was hilarious. Okay, Nigel, thank you for sitting in the uncomfortable seat that you didn't want to sit in. It's been hell. And thank you for being the first male guest on the podcast, and also the first person that I told about doing the podcast, which was my advice, which was then shot down, like, go and have a good hard look at yourself and today, definitely was exactly what I hoped it would be, deep, funny, honest, and also around what actually does matter in life. And I do think it does come back to reflection, making sure it's right for you, and just doing that, thinking, if there's one thing I'm taking away from it is that reinvention never stops, and you can pivot when you need to, and you should be continually reflecting on that. And there's no final version of ourselves. We are just or we just keep evolving, laughing and trying new things. And that, in itself, is pretty amazing. So before we wrap up,

Nigel Marsh:

you're a very nice meat robot. Yeah,

Dominique Hind:

one final question for you. If I could try one thing before I hit 50 that would push me, take me out of my comfort zone, stretch me. What would it be? I'm going to

Nigel Marsh:

give you two. Oh, okay, great. So the first one, the Sydney skinny, the second thing, and I mean this seriously, yes, is you do something that contributes to society, right? You don't get anything from it, yeah? So I don't know, you volunteer at Wesley Chapel or whatever, and I don't mean sleep out for CEO, yeah, post it on Instagram, right? No, nothing wrong with that. Yeah, that's being negative. But I'm saying you choose something that you haven't done before that is purely service, right? Yeah, and this is the kicker, you do not tell anyone, yeah, anybody.

Dominique Hind:

I like both of them, good, great. And I'm very happy not to share it on Insta, yeah, no, no, no. It's not just Insta, no. And not tell anyone, anyone from one person, just Justin Okay. Thank you, Nigel, thank you for sharing your wisdom, your stories and your legendary Laugh with us today, even though I think it's a superpower and you get embarrassed by it. I loved it. Second. And if you love the conversation, go check out Nigel's best award winning podcast five of my life. I'll link everything in the show notes. And if you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe. Share it with your friends and chat with me on socials. But don't tell me what you're doing behind closed doors and volunteering. And before you go take on Nigel's, try this before you 50 challenge. Hey, yeah, I actually the Sydney skinny. I'll make sure that I put that on there. Where is it? At cobras beach. Okay, middle head. Yeah. Okay, great. Give it a go, see how it challenges you, and let me know. Because fuck, we're nearly 50 and isn't amazing. Oh.